FRIDAY FINDS ~ My Dad’s World War II Draft Registration Card–1940, Detroit, Michigan

My Dad was born on the last day of 1912.  I had always wondered why I couldn’t locate a World War II Draft Registration card for him.  I thought they had all been put online.  After all, I found the registration cards for my grandfather’s, uncles etc.

 

It turns out that all the images for this record set were not online.  Who knew?  Randy Seaver wrote about this in his Genea-Musings blog.

Off I went to see if I could find this record for my Dad.  Sure enough, there it was. U.S. WWII Draft Cards Young Men, 1940-1947 - Harry Norman Gould

This record gives me a little more information about my Dad and his first wife, Elaine.  The address listed here, 18286 Ferguson, Detroit, Michigan, is different than the address listed in the 1940 census.  The date of this registration is 16 Oct 1940.  The 1940 census is dated 16 Apr 1940 and this couple is living at 12892 Faust Ave., Detroit, Michigan.  They are said to have been at that address in 1935, as well.  So, between April & October 1940, they had moved.

  

What information is available on this record?

Serial Number 3106, Order Number 1217

Harry Norman Gould

18286 Ferguson, Detroit, Wayne, Mich.

Telephone VE 5-7622

Age 27 years

Place of birth – Detroit, Mich.

Date of birth – 12-31-12

Country of citizenship – U.S.

Name of person who will always know your address – Mrs. Elaine Gertrude Gould, wife

Address of that person – 18286 Ferguson, Detroit, Wayne, Michgan

Employer’s name – Wayne County Auditors

Place of employment – County Bldg., Detroit, Wayne, Mich.

Race – white

Height – 6’ 1 1/2”

Weight – 183

Eyes – Blue

Hair – Brown

Complexion – light

Scars – None

If I didn’t already know my Dad’s physical description, this is certainly a wonderful source.

Here is a screenshot courtesy of Google Maps showing the home at 18286 Ferguson.  I wonder what it looked like in 1940?

  

I enjoy collecting signatures from as many ancestors as possible.  I already have my Dad’s from a later record.  How much had it changed over the years?

Left signature from 1940 and right from 1971

What interesting or unknown information have you found in the various draft card registration files?

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2020   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

MILITARY MONDAY ~ Honoring Pfc Robert Dean Thornton–killed in action in World War II - 1945

PLEASE CLICK ON THE TRIANGLE TO PLAY ROBERT'S MEMORIAL VIDEO

Robert Dean Thornton is my 2nd cousin once removed. Meaning we share a common ancestor – my 3rd great grandparents,  Charles Milne (1822-1877) and Margaret Ritchie (1820-1902).

BACKGROUND: Robert was the son of George Thornton (1881-1951) and Goldie Downing (1883-1962) of Muskegon, Michigan.  Robert was their youngest child.  He had older siblings, Lottie Mae, Goldie M., Marjorie and George “Williard.”

According to his headstone and military records, Robert was born 29 Aug 1919 in Michigan. NOTE: There is one record that gives his birthdate as 29 Sep 1919.

I first find Robert as a 4 month old in the 1920 census, in Muskegon, Michigan.  He again appears in the 1930 and 1940 census records with his parents, living in Muskegon, Michigan.
On 16 Oct 1940 Robert reported to the Local Board No. 2 in Muskegon, Michigan to register for the draft.  He is listed as 5’ 7 1/2”, 150 pounds, with brown hair, blue eyes and a light complexion.  He was working for Hercules Motor and he was 21 years old.

WORLD WAR II DRAFT REGISTRATION - 1940

On 6 Mar 1941 Robert married Jacklyn M. Ritersdorf, in Definance, Defiance Co., Ohio.

Ohio, County Marriage Records, 1774-1993
Name:    Jacklyn M Ritersdorf
Gender:    Female
Age:    21
Birth Date:    abt 1920
Marriage Date:    6 Mar 1941
Marriage Place:    Defiance, Ohio, USA
Father:    William Ritersdorf
Mother:    Mary Edgerly
Spouse:    Robert D Thornton
Film Number:    001977645

Just 9 months after their marriage on 7 Dec 1941, Pearl Harbor was bombed. This as we all know, began the U.S. entry into World War II.

On 25 May 1943 Robert D. Thornton enlisted in the Army.  Less than 2 months later he and his wife, Jackie divorced. That means the divorce would have begun prior to his enlistment.  Did the divorce proceedings have anything to do with his enlistment?  I have no way of knowing.
 
However, just 18 days after the divorce was final, Robert married Paula Evelyn Johnson on 27 Jul 1943 in Comanche, Stephens, Oklahoma.
 
Oklahoma, County Marriage Records, 1890-1995
Name:    Robert Dean Thornton
Gender: Male
Age:    24
Birth Date: abt 1919
Marriage Date:    27 Jul 1943
Marriage Place: Comanche, Oklahoma, USA
Spouse: Paula Evelyn Johnson
Film Number:    001869740

Robert was a Private First Class in the 378 Infantry Division, 95th Division, Company G.  According to military records Robert was killed in action, at age 25 on 6 Apr 1945 in Germany.  That means that Robert was killed just 32 days prior to the war’s end.  He made it for two years and then sadly, died just a month before he could have come home.

Robert's body was returned home for burial in October 1948, along with others from Muskegon, who had died in the war.  The local high school that Robert attended displayed a bronze tablet honoring those who had paid the ultimate sacrifice.

They also mentioned them and shared photos of them in the 1945 yearbook.

Robert is buried at Mona View Cemetery in Muskegon, Michigan. His headstone memorializes his service to our country.  You may visit his memorial here #46411967.

I am honored to be related to this military hero.  May he rest in peace.

If you are related to anyone mentioned in this post, or have additions or corrections, please contact me.

Happy hunting,
Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2019   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

MILITARY MONDAY ~ Have you looked at the second page of your ancestor's World War II Draft Registration? It may contain physical characteristics of your ancestor

Over the weekend I was looking at some pictures of my grandparents.  I wondered to myself “how tall were they?”  My brother, Norm and I are tall.  Our Dad was 6’ 2” and Mom was 5’ 6”.
 
Where am I likely to find physical descriptions for my grandparents?

For the women, I don’t know.  However, for the men, my grandfathers, it would be on the back of their World War II Draft Registration Card.  The back of those cards are on the page after the front, as you view the record online.  The World War I Draft Registration Cards were scanned so that you see both the front and back of the card on the same image on Ancestry.  Not so, with the World War II Draft cards.

Commonly referred to as the “Old Man’s Registration.” This draft registration was for those men alive in 1942, who were born between 1877 and 1888.

Description

“This database is an indexed collection of the draft cards from the Fourth Registration, the only registration currently available to the public (the other registrations are not available due to privacy laws). The Fourth Registration, often referred to as the "old man's registration", was conducted on 27 April 1942. The records include name of registrant, age, birth date, birthplace, residence, employer information, and physical description.”
 
My paternal grandfather, Harry Whipple Gould was born in 1886 and my maternal grandfather, Joseph Albert Milne was born in 1883.  So, both of them fall in the birth years covered by this registration.
 
I immediately looked at my Legacy database where I record all information for my family.  Much of that information is added to the Events/Facts area of the file.  I checked the entry for my paternal grandfather, Harry W. Gould, and found that I did not have the WW II Draft Registration entered.  Had I located it and just failed to enter it? I looked at my maternal grandfather, Joseph A. Milne and the draft record and image are recorded as they should be.
 
I looked in my digital files and did find an image for the WW II Draft Card for Harry W. Gould, BUT, only the first page.
 
Off I went to Ancestry to find and download the second page, which contains the physical description.
 
Here is the card, both front and back.  You can see that Harry has listed himself as 5' 7" and 160 pounds.
 


TIP: I use the program Paint in order to combine the two images into one.  This is a free program on your PC (I can’t speak to Mac’s) and is very easy to use.  I use it daily.
 
There it is, the physical description of my grandfather, Harry W. Gould.  In reviewing family photos with everyone standing together, this description seems about right.
 
Here’s a photo of Harry W. Gould with his mother and brothers.  His brother Roy is listed as 5’ 6” tall on his WW II Draft card.  He and Harry look to be close to the same height.
 

My next question was – Do I have a WW II Draft Registration Card for Ford Gould, the brother on the far left?  If not, why not?
 
It turns out that I had not downloaded and recorded the WW II Draft Card information for Ford Gould.  He is listed as 5’ 1”.  As he is several inches shorter than his brothers in this photo, is another piece of evidence that the height is about right.  We can never be sure that these registration cards are 100% correct.  The individual could easily have misrepresented any number of items.  

However, we take the information and compare it to what else we have and can come to a conclusion as to the validity.

This information allows me to estimate the height of the ladies in the family too.  If I can see that they are all standing at the same level I can estimate within a reasonable margin of error, their approximate height.

In this case for my great grandmother, Mae Thorp Gould, I can see that she is a bit taller than Ford.  Take into consideration her hair and that the ground may not be completely level, I would estimate her height between 5’ 1” and 5’ 3”.  She appears taller than Ford, but shorter than Harry & Roy.
 
Now I’m going to go back to my family photos and begin compiling the approximate heights of my ancestors.  I won’t be able to do this for everyone, but I bet I can find photos that allow me to guess a few of them.
 
Were your ancestors short or tall?  What other characteristics did they have that may or may not have passed down to you and your siblings?

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2017   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

SEPIA SATURDAY ~ WAR and PEACE–My Uncle Bob–Robert Andrew Milne–World War II

Image from http://sepiasaturday.blogspot.com/

Robert Andrew Milne was my Mom’s only brother.  He was 15 years older than her.

Robert is the son of Joseph Albert Milne and Florence Bowden Milne.  He was born in 1909, the second child of four born to this couple.
 
My Uncle Bob was small in stature, standing only 5’ 7” and weighing just 114 lbs.  He had blue eyes and brown hair.

Here he is with his mother and in his military school uniform.


My mother’s memories of her brother Bob, were few.  Bob was sent off to military boarding school as a teenager.  When he would come home, my Mom said he would always take the time to talk to her and make sure she was doing well.  My Mom said that Uncle Bob and his father (my grandfather) didn’t get along very well.  She didn’t know why. Mom also told me that Bob had a lifelong problem with alcohol which affected many areas of his life.

Below is a photo from 1934.  That’s Uncle Bob, his maternal grandmother, Florence Hunter Bowden Bell, his sister Joan Milne, his paternal grandmother, Susan Gillespie Milne Smith and the little girl in the front is his sister, Pat, my mother.  Their sister Dorothy Irene Milne died at age 13, in 1920.

 
I know Bob married Edwina Booth on 4 Mar 1943.  There was a stillborn child born in November 1943.  This couple divorced 13 Apr 1944.
 
He didn’t marry again until 22 Dec 1961, at age 52, when he married Dorothy Delahoyde.  Sadly, Dorothy died just four years later.

Bob would have been 32 years old when he went into the service during World War II.


Here is a copy of a portion of Uncle Bob’s discharge papers, showing his unit and the medals he won.  He served as a Surgical Technician.



Here is a picture of my Uncle Bob with his wife, Dorothy, on the beach in 1962.



I only have vague memories of my Uncle Bob.  He lived his entire life in Detroit, Michigan.  We moved from Detroit when I was only 7 yrs. old.

Robert Andrew Milne died 17 Nov 1969 at age 60.  His cause of death was generalized carcinoma of the lung.
 
I’m proud of my Uncle Bob for his service to our country.  I wish I would have gotten to know him better.  But, I’m glad I can honor him here.

If you have any connection to the people in this post, please contact me I’d love to hear from you.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2016   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION