MYSTERY MONDAY Repost with Updates - Who's Your Daddy? John C. Gould (1833-1919)

 

If I could ask for just one thing regarding my genealogy research this year, it would be to find out who John C. Gould’s parents were.

This is an update on my original post from 2015.  I have indicated in Red where new information or discoveries have been made

Gould is my maiden name.  Only being able to take that name back to my 2nd great grandfather and no further is my biggest genealogical brick wall.  And, if I don’t uncover this mystery my youngest brother may never consider my research a success.  He listens to my great finds and revealing stories and then asks “but, have you found out who John’s parents were?”

Here is a brief bio:

JOHN C. GOULD – born Jan 1833 in Michigan, married Sarah M. HART on 7 Oct 1858 in Armada, Macomb, Michigan.  Had one son, William Val Gould (probably born as Vivaldo William Gould) in 1859. Had one daughter, Julene E. Gould who lived 2 years 1861-1863.  Wife Sarah died on 11 Nov 1911 in Detroit, Wayne, Michigan.  John died 19 May 1919, age 86, in Nankin Township, Eloise, Wayne, Michigan.  He is buried at Rose Hill Cemetery, Armada, Macomb, Michigan.

GOULD RD. SIGN - LOCATED IN ARMADA, MACOMB, MICHIGAN

Here’s what I’ve done during the past dozen or so years to find John’s parents:

• Looked at census records for the years 1840-1920 that could possibly contain his name.  Including tracking the Gould heads of household for the census years 1830 and 1840 in Michigan.
• Located him in the 1860, 1870, 1880, 1900 and 1910 census records in Michigan.
• Located his Civil War Draft Registration card
• Located a purchase and sale of land in Macomb County, Michigan in 1863 and 1871.
• Located him on Agriculture census records in 1850 and 1870.
• Ordered and received his marriage record to Sarah M. Hart
• Located him in Detroit City Directory listings beginning in 1878.  With the final City Directory listing I could locate in 1912.
• Researched his wife, Sarah M. Hart’s entire family, including siblings and their spouses.
• Located the death record and obituary for his wife Sarah in 1911.
• Found out everything I could about his son, William V. Gould and his family.
• I’ve hired two professional researchers back in Michigan to assist me.  They added a little bit of information, but found nothing about his parents.
• I’ve gone back to Michigan and gone to the courthouse in Macomb County and researched probate records for a Gould family I have always strongly believed could be connected.  No mention of John in the records.
• I’ve posted inquiries on RootsWeb beginning in 2006.
• Sent emails to Macomb County genealogy group – no records found
• Gone to the Mt. Clemens Library in Macomb County and looked for records, books etc. – Nothing found
• Talked to people in the Armada Village office, asking about the naming of Gould Rd. in the town of Armada.  They could provide no information.
• Checked all Goulds buried in Michigan on the FindAGrave site.  I have entered a memorial for him (burial unknown) #32438846 and was later able to confirm his burial at Rose Hill Cemetery.
• Checked marriage records for the same time frame that he and Sarah were married, looking for possible siblings for John.
• Sent numerous other emails to people I’ve found on mailing lists or websites.
• Located a possible death certificate on seekingmichigan.org.  This John Gould died in Eloise State Hospital.  Much of the information on this certificate fits, but no parents are listed.  I have contacted people who may have information on Eloise Hospital records or burials and come up empty. UPDATE - After finding the article about his burial I am convinced this death certificate is the correct John Gould. (see image below)
• I’ve also read several books about brick walls, hoping for some spark that might lead me to John’s parents.
• Had my brother, direct descendant of John C. Gould, provide DNA.  There are no other known direct male descendants.  He has done both YDNA and Ancestry autosomal with results uploaded to all the sites.   As of 10 Jan 2019 I have not located a good match.  My brother's Gedmatch number is A567536.

QUESTIONS   

1.  What have I missed?

2.  Where should I look next?

Here is a descendant report that shows John & Sarah’s son, William and his children, which includes my grandfather, Harry Whipple Gould.

 

1-John C. GOULD [56]{FindAGrave #32438846 & #125849145}

born: Jan 1833, , , MI

died: After 1910

+Sarah M. HART [130]{FindAGrave #32439008}

born: Dec 1835, , , , Canada

marr: 7 Oct 1858, Armada, Macomb, MI

died: 11 Nov 1911, Detroit, Wayne, MI

parents: Henry HART [143]{FindAGrave #31946503} and Olive Glasier DOTEN [144]{FindAGrave #31946513}

2-William Val GOULD [7]{FindAGrave # 31868691}

born: 31 Aug 1859, Armada, Macomb, MI

died: 24 Feb 1924, Detroit, Wayne, MI

+Mary "Mae" Eve THORP [8]{FindAGrave # 24216381}

born: 4 Apr 1862, Oswego, Oswego, NY

marr: 1881

died: 3 Nov 1946, Detroit, Wayne, MI

parents: Horace Henry THORP [131]{FindAGrave #32025637} and Catherine C. DORSEY [132]{FindAGrave ~

3-Unknown GOULD [2485]

born:

died:

3-Ford Val GOULD [17]{FindAGrave #61960668}

born: 31 Aug 1884, Detroit, Wayne, MI

died: 17 Jun 1947, Detroit, Wayne, MI

3-Harry Whipple GOULD [5]{FindAGrave #14481532}

born: 10 Feb 1886, Detroit, Wayne, MI

died: 17 Feb 1960, Ft. Lauderdale, Broward, FL, United States

3-Roy V. GOULD [16]{FindAGrave #61961339}

born: 26 May 1888, , , MI

died: 18 Jul 1971, Yucaipa, San Bernardino, CA.

3-Gladys Lillian GOULD [19]{FindAGrave#88657246}

born: 11 Jul 1890, Detroit, Wayne, MI

died: 8 Oct 1966, Detroit, Wayne, MI

3-May Adele GOULD [18]{FindAGrave #91531460}

born: 25 Feb 1898, , , MI

died: 28 Sep 1984, , San Bernardino, CA

3-Helen C. GOULD [21]{FindAGrave #32439516}

born: 12 Mar 1901, Detroit, Wayne, MI

died: 17 Feb 1945, Detroit, Wayne, MI

2-Julene E. GOULD [221]{FindAGrave #132128928}

born: 1861, Armada, Macomb, MI

died: 27 Sep 1863, Armada, Macomb, MI

Documents associated with John C. Gould    (Click on any image to enlarge it)

Marriage record - John C. Gould & Sarah Hart 1858	Land Purchase in Macomb Co., Michigan 1863	Civil War Draft Registration for John C. Gould 1863
Sale of land in Macomb Co., Michigan 1871	Death certificate for Mrs. Sara Gould 1911	Death notice for Sarah Gould 1911
	Death certificate for John Gould - 19 May 1919

Newspaper article about John's remains being moved
from Detroit to Rose Hill Cemetery in Armada - 23 May 1919

And here are his direct line male descendants with their relationship to him:

Son - William V. Gould 1859-1924

Grandson - Harry W. Gould 1886-1960

Great grandson - Harry N. Gould 1912-1991

2nd great grandson - H. N. Gould II

3rd great grandson - Joshua J. Gould

There you have him.  My biggest genealogical mystery & brick wall to date. 
  
If you have any ideas, suggestions or strategies to knock down this wall, please contact me. 
 
OTHER POSTS THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST

Breaking Down A Brick Wall - Finding Elizabeth Fitzcharles Parents
Setting Goals, Focusing, Organizing - How Do We Handle These Issues?
 
Happy hunting,

Copyright ©  2010-2023   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

MYSTERY MONDAY ~ Do you know this woman? Taken at Fenner Studio, Lima, Ohio - I would date this photo circa 1890’s Ohio

Unknown lady - fron Fenner's Studio in Lima, Ohio (showing front and back of the photo postcard) - I estimate 1890's

I purchased this photo on eBay sometime in 2019.  I routinely look for any photographs that were taken at, or mention Fenner’s Studio.  My great grandaunt, Grace HUNTER (1874-1946) was married to Charles Henry FENNER (1859-1918) and his family owned Fenner’s Studio in Ohio.  After his death, my great grandaunt, Grace, ran the studio on some level.

 

When I saw this particular photo, I thought the lady bore a resemblance to my 2nd great grandmother, Susan Caroline BOGGS, who was Grace’s mother.  I have only one photo of Susan Boggs (who married James Gillen Hunter and together they had 9 children).  Wouldn’t it be marvelous to have another photo of her?

Here’s my only photo of Susan.  This is a four generation photo that I’ve shown on my blog in the past.

Susan Caroline Boggs Hunter is seated in front, holding her great granddaughter, Dorothy Irene Milne - standing in the back are L-R, my great grandmother Florence Hunter and my grandmother Florence Bowden - this photo was taken in 1907

If I zoom in and crop only Susan, here’s what I get. 

Here are the photos side by side. 

I am fairly good at identifying old photos and recognizing my family at different ages.  I’ve examined these photos over and over and I have concluded that they are not the same person.  In looking at the shape of the eyebrows and mouth and even the eyes, I find significant enough differences that make me think they are two different people.  I have tried to zoom in to the magazine the lady in the chair is holding, but cannot see a date or place etc.

I would welcome your input on this matter.  Do you think they are the same person?  If so, why?

 

And, of course, if you recognize this woman and are related to her, I’d be happy to send you the photo.

OTHER POSTS THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST

100 YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE SPANISH INFLUENZA ~ An estimated 50 Million died worldwide–How many in my own family? (Quite timely – I mentioned Charles Fenner’s death above – he died in this pandemic)

A GREAT DISCOVERY YESTERDAY–ASK FOR HELP AND YOU MAY GET IT – A post about the value of putting your queries online and joining Facebook groups

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2020   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

52 Ancestors in 52 Weeks–Week #4–Who Would I Like to Talk to?

Isn’t that a question we often ask ourselves?  If only we could talk to _______fill in the blank.  Maybe we could get answers to our family mysteries or just a better background on who, what, when and where.

Since the theme for this week doesn’t say we have to pick just one person, I am going to name a few of my beloved ancestors and why I’d like to (need to) speak to them.  If you’re a regular reader of my blog, you will recognize these names. I apologize for bringing them up again.  However, we all know that it only takes one person/reader to say “hey, I know the answer to that question!”  It’s what we all hope for.

William "Val" Gould - my great grandfather, son of John C. Gould

FIRST AND DEFINITELY AT THE TOP OF MY LIST – My paternal great grandfather, William V. Gould (born Vivaldo William Gould) (1859-1924).  I know, from many sources, who is father & mother were.  HOWEVER, I am completely stuck as to who his paternal grandparents were.  Who were the parents of John C. Gould?   What could William tell me about his own father?  Did he know who his paternal grandparents were?  Did he ever meet them?  What stories did his father tell about the family?  And lastly, why doesn’t there seem to be a single photo of his parents in family pictures?  They were alive until 1911 and probably 1919.  And, the next question would be – is the John Gould on the death certificate I’ve located, the correct person?  Is this William’s father?

I’ve written about this nearly two decade brick wall mystery and you can read it here MYSTERY MONDAY - WHO'S YOUR DADDY? John C. Gould 1833-1919?

THE NEXT ANCESTOR I NEED TO TALK TO – My maternal great grandfather, Robert Edward Lee Bowden, 1863-1906.  Who were his parents?  Did he have siblings?  I know absolutely nothing about his family.  

Interestingly, it was his daughter, Florence Bowden (my grandmother) who was the family historian/genealogist before me.  She kept meticulous records of family births, marriages and many deaths.  She drew a family tree by hand.  However, back in the 1970’s she wrote me a letter and in that letter is a response to a question I’d asked about her family.  Who were her father’s parents?  She could only say that she thought Robert Bowden’s mother was named Susan and that she died when my grandmother was 4 yrs. old, which would have been about 1892.  Since Robert and his wife divorced when my grandmother was about 11 yrs. old and he died when she was just 18 yrs. old, there may not have been a time when she could ask questions. Robert was a railroad brakeman and I expect he was often gone from the home.
  

 I’ve never found a picture of him and surely there must have been one taken at some point.

 
This shouldn’t come as a surprise, but I’ve also written a blog post about this brick wall and you can read it here MYSTERY MONDAY - WHO'S YOUR DADDY? Robert L. Bowden 1863-1906

Catherine Dorsey - my 2nd great grandmother with her children Annie & Horace Jr.

NEXT ON MY LIST -  My paternal 2nd great grandmother, Catherine C. Dorsey about 1842 – 1898.  She, by all records I’ve obtained, was born in Dublin, Ireland about 1842.  Her death cert lists her parents as Jno and Mary.  She lies in an unmarked grave at Mt. Elliott Cemetery in Detroit, Michigan.  

She was the wife of Horace Henry Thorp (1836-1907) and the mother of 10 children.  I have a picture of her.  I also have most of the information on 9 of her 10 children.  When did she arrive in the U.S.?  Was she really born in Dublin?  What were the full names of her parents and did she have any siblings?  How did she meet Horace?  
As you might guess, I’ve also written about her before and you can read it and see her picture here - MYSTERY MONDAY - WHO'S YOUR DADDY? Catherine Dorsey about 1842-1898

My Dad - Harry Norman Gould

AND LAST, BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST – My own Dad, Harry Norman Gould 1912-1991.  He absolutely loved to tell family stories and talk about when he was growing up.  He was an only child, and the grandchild of William & Mae Gould (although they had 6 children, he was the only grandchild).  I did listen to his stories growing up and when I became an adult.  I did ask him questions and we sat down and I had him label family photos for me.  But, you know how it goes.  Until we begin doing actual family research we don’t know what questions we should have asked.  

I didn’t begin my genealogy journey until 12 years after he died.  Now I have a hundred questions that I would be willing to bet he could answer for me.  And, we would have such a good time, laughing and talking about his beloved Mema and Bepa (what he called William & Mae Gould), his grandparents.  If only…….if only. 

There are dozens more ancestors that I’d love to sit down with, but for now, I’d settle for all or one of the four I’ve mentioned here.

Who would you like to talk to?  And why?
  
If you find that you are related to anyone mentioned in this post or have information for me, please get in touch.

Happy hunting,
Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2019   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

MYSTERY MONDAY–Who’s Your Daddy? Brick Wall Post #6–Lany Cooper Thorp 1815-1886-SOLVED!

SOLVED!

Lany Cooper is my paternal 3rd great grandmother.  I have not been able to find more than a minimal amount of information on her family (meaning her parents and/or siblings).

Here is what I know at this point:

She was born 16 Feb 1815 in Cato, Cayuga, New York.

She was the second wife of Monson Thorp, Sr.  They married on 12 Apr 1835 in Cato, Cayuga, New York.  Monson’s first wife, Ann Eliza Armitage had died in about 1833, leaving Monson with a young daughter & son.  Anna Maria Thorp 1830-1903 and Rev. Wallace Walter Thorp 1833-1913.  Monson was a Wagonmaker.  He certainly would have needed help raising two young children under 4 yrs. of age.

Lany & Monson had 6 children, three boys and three girls as follows:

1.  Horace Henry Thorp born 1836 married Catherine Dorsey.  He died 1907.  (These are my direct ancestors)
2.  Lucyette Thorp, never married (1838-1866)
3.  Stephen B. Thorp born 1840 married Henrietta Barnes in Sep 1869.  Stephen had served in the Civil War.  He died of consumption on 14 Jun 1871.  No known children were born to this couple.
4.  Mary “Polly” Thorp, born 1841, married David Preston Flower about 1860.  Mary died 16 Apr 1892.  They had 5 children. 
5.  Edith Eliza Thorp born Jan 1843, married George Beech Surdam about 1863.  She died 29 Mar 1915.  They had 5 children.
6.  Monson Thorp, Jr. born 5 Feb 1847, married Eudora Louise Searls on 9 Oct 1870.  He died 11 May 1939.  They had 6 children.

Here is a view of Monson & Lany Thorp from my Legacy database:

(CLICK ON ANY IMAGE TO ENLARGE IT)

The first hint I had of Lany’s parent’s names was on her death certificate.  Although her name is listed as “Fanny” and not Lany, I have confirmed the dates based on other evidence.  On this certificate, her parent’s names are given as Jacob Cooper and Polly Byrne, both of Albany, New York.
 


Here is a her death notice as published in the Skaneateles Press 24 Jul 1886.



After locating the death record and the death notice I also found a newspaper article about the 50th wedding anniversary for Monson & Lany.  This article was located via the Fulton History website.  
Please note, I wrote a blog post about using the Fulton History website, which you can access here http://www.michiganfamilytrails.com/2015/04/i-hit-jackpot-on-this-website-old.html

Skaneateles Free Press - 4 Apr 1885, column 3

Transription of the newspaper article above: “TO CELEBRATE THEIR GOLDEN WEDDING: Mr. and Mrs. Munson Thorp of this village will celebrate their golden wedding at their home on Jordan street, Sunday, April 12, 1883.  They were married April 12, 1833 at Cato, Cayuga county, that town being the native place of Mrs. Thorp, whose maiden name was Lany Cooper.  Mr. Thorp was born in Harpersfield, Conn. February 27, 1801, and is now in his 85th year.  They have always resided in Skaneateles since their marriage, and Mr. Thorp has been a resident of this village since October, 27, 1827. He is a wagon maker by trade first working in this town for the late John Legg, and for fifteen years he was employed by S & J Hall in the stone building now used by Thomas Kelley as a blacksmith shop.  Six children have been born to him, four yet living, all of whom have homes in the West.  Neither Mr. Thorp nor wife are very strong, but they keep house alone and manage the household duties between them.  While striving to lay up something for old age, Mr. Thorp has been unsuccessful, but has always managed to maintain his household without aid, though the struggle is hard for a couple so aged and infirm.  They will be “at home” to all their friends who may desire to call on them on their golden wedding day – a week from Sunday next.”

Finding newspaper articles like the one above certainly is a bonus for any researcher.  There is a lot of good genealogical information contained in the piece.  Of course it all must be confirmed, but still, such great leads.

I also have a copy of Lany’s Last Will & Testament.  The information contained here led me to married names of Lany’s daughters.  I also have her husband, Monson’s Last Will & Testament.

And finally, I do have a picture of Lany’s headstone.  You can visit her memorial on FindAGrave #32026022.  She is buried, with her husband, Monson and their daughter, Lucyette, at Lake View Cemetery, Skaneateles, Onondaga, New York.
 


Other than making a trip to Cayuga County, New York, I have not found anything that gives me more information about Lany’s parents and/or siblings, if there were any.  I would be grateful to anyone who could provide more information, or new ideas.  I've looked at census & land records in New York for the appropriate years and come up empty.

Please visit my other “Who’s Your Daddy?” posts here http://www.michiganfamilytrails.com/p/test.html

OTHER POSTS THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST
A STATE CENSUS RECORD THAT LEADS TO A LOT MORE QUESTIONS - The Monson Thorp Family

TOMBSTONE TUESDAY – My 3rd great grandparents – Monson & Lany Thorp

PLEASE contact me if you think you might be related, even remotely, to anyone mentioned in this blog.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2015   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION