FRIDAY FINDS ~ Finally figuring out Julia Austin’s parents

 

Julia Maria Austin Thorp

Today I’d like to talk about the wife of my half 2^nd great granduncle, Julia Maria Austin.

It wasn’t until I was a few years into my research that I realized my paternal 3^rd great grandfather, Monson Thorp, Sr. had been married prior to him marrying my 3^rd great grandmother, Lany Cooper.

In finding that out, I came to also learn that his two oldest children, Ann Maria and Wallace Walter were children born to this first wife, Ann Eliza Armitage.

Then I was fortunate to visit with a 3^rd cousin and his wife in Northville, Michigan and obtain a photo of Julia Austin. That’s when I learned she was the wife of Wallace Walter Thorp, my half 2^nd great granduncle.

In doing further research on Julia I have located her death record, burial location and obituary.  BUT, I had always wanted to find her parents and/or siblings. None of those records gave me the names of her parents.

There is an 1850 census in Chenango, Broome, NY that has a Julia, age 5 in a household with parents (William & Mary Austin) and siblings.  Then in an 1855 NY state census this same family is enumerated and Julia is 10 yrs. old.  Is this “our” Julia?  That has always been my question.

By the time of the 1860 census I find a Julia Austin living in the Geer/Gere household with her age being 16 and she is listed as a domestic.  The importance of this is her location, which is Skaneateles, Broome Co., New York.

That’s the place her future husband Wallace Walter Thorp was born and grew up. By about 1860, he was attending Auburn Theological Seminary, just 13 miles from Skaneateles. 

I don’t know how Wallace & Julia met, but they were certainly in the same area at the appropriate time.

While I was writing this post a light bulb went off in my head.

You all know how this feels.  You’ve researched a particular ancestor off and on for years and SUDDENLY it dawns on you!

If 16 year old Julia is working in a household with a husband and wife, could they be part of her family?  Is Elizabeth Geer her older sister? 

Off I went back to the 1850 U.S. census and the 1855 NY state census to see who was enumerated in that household that I suspect to be Julia’s family.  GUESS WHAT?!

There she is, Elizabeth Austin age 17, an older sister of Julia.  And also in the household is baby Sarah Ann Austin, Julia’s younger sister.

CLICK ON ANY IMAGE TO ENLARGE IT

In the 1855 NY state census on the same page as Julia Austin’s family, is her sister Elizabeth, with new husband, Fayette Geer and Julia’s youngest sister, Sara. Although the census lists “sister” as the relationship between head of household, Fayette Geer and Sarah Austin, she is really a sister to his wife.

I have just put this family together!!! Woohoo!!

Why sometimes, does it take us so long to put the pieces together?  I honestly don’t have an answer to that.  But, it has happened to me many times.  I think as we research we remember different details and then they just fall together.

This process made me smile today. 

What are your recent finds?  I’d love to hear about them.

OTHER POSTS THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST

A STATE CENSUS RECORD THAT LEADS TO A LOT MORE QUESTIONS–The Monson Thorp family 

WHAT I LEARNED FROM ONE SINGLE PAGE OF A CIVIL WAR PENSION FILE–1864 –Edith E. Thorp widow of Walter B. Thorp

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2025   Diane Gould Hall
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

FRIDAY FINDS~Obituary of my husband's great grandfather Thomas C. Hall, Civil War veteran (1845-1897)

How excited was I when I was looking on a website for one piece of information, and came across something else?

I was on the Fulton History website (over 51 million old newspapers are scanned and available on this free site) trying to locate information about my husband’s 2^nd great grandfather.  I came up empty on him.

Then I thought, why not see if there is anything for my husband’s great grandfather, Thomas C. Hall.

BINGO!!!!!

HIS OBITUARY!

This is a record I have looked for in the past, but never located.  Perhaps I never looked on this website or maybe it wasn’t yet available.  Either way, I have it now and here it is.

(Please click on any image to enlarge it)

Obituary published in the Albany Evening Journal, 20 Jan 1897, page 6

This particular obituary is a bonanza of genealogical information.

Here is my transcription.  The words I had difficulty reading are indicated with an underline.

Thomas Cornelius Hall whose sudden illness from apoplexy was reported yesterday, succumbed to the stroke ten hours later.  Mr. Hall never rallied. He was born in Elisabeth, N.J. and was 52 years of age. His father was the Rev. George Hall, a Congregational divine, whose parents were among the first settlers of Keene, N.H. Mr. Hall went to Saratoga in 1870 and has since resided there. He married Miss Cora E. Brown February 5, 1877, and is survived by her and one son, Charles S. Hall. He also leaves two sisters, Mrs. A. A. Smith of Irvington, Iowa and Miss Emma Griffing of Hampton, Miss. Mr. Hall was a veteran of the late war having served with Company C One Hundred and Second New York Volunteers. When he entered the service he was not old enough to enlist. Mr. Hall was employed by W.H. Granger as baggage express messenger. He was at the time connected with the _____Journal. He was a communicant of Bethesda Episcopal church and a member of it's choir.

Most of the information in this obituary are things I already knew about Thomas’ family.  However, this can be added as yet another source.  And, there were things I didn’t know such as which company he worked for and his church affiliation and singing in the church choir. 

I have sent the church an email asking what records they might have pertaining to Thomas & Cora Hall.

Obituaries are such incredible sources of information for us as family historians.  I’m saddened to think of future genealogists, as the tradition of families having obituaries published is fading from our society.

What obituaries have you located that have given you treasures of information.  I’d love to hear about them.

OTHER POSTS THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST

CIVIL WAR PENSION FILE ~ Cora E. Hall widow of Thomas C. Hall ~ What gems does it contain?

CORA’S SCRAPBOOK ~ Episode 2 – Thomas C. Hall & Cora E. Brown marriage announcement, 1877

If you are related to or connected to anyone in this blog post, please get in touch.  Let’s exchange information.

Happy hunting,
Michigan Girl
Copyright ©  2010-2022   Diane Gould Hall
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

 

FRIDAY FINDS ~ The image for my Granduncle William Lindsay's marriage to Gertrude Watson in 1912

Finding my granduncle’s marriage record to his first wife.

Whether these items were missed by you, the researcher, or came online after your last search, it pays to keep going back.

That’s just what I did for my granduncle, William Lindsay’s marriage record to his first wife Gertrude Mae Watson.

I had located his other 3 marriage records, but not this one.  I had a note that the image “was not available” in the dataset I checked back in 2013.  I did find the index for it though.

To read about William’s other marriages WEDDING WEDNESDAY ~ William “Bill” Lindsay & his many wives–the story of my Granduncle Bill

Here is the marriage index I downloaded in 2013.

You can click on any image to enlarge it

Today, I checked that same dataset on Ancestry.com – Ontario Marriages, 1869-1927, and located the image I'd been wanting to see.

As we all know, it’s always better to see an original image, than just to rely on a transcription/index.  Mistakes can and are made and interpretations can vary.

Did I learn anything new from seeing this image? Yes! 

  Here is what the index didn’t tell me…

• Places of birth for both William & Gertrude – U.S. for both

• Their nationality – Scottish for him and Canadian for her

• Religious denomination – Protestant for him and Methodist for her

• Residence for each – Detroit, Michigan

• Occupation of their fathers – Machinist for William’s and deceased for Gertrude’s.  That’s a big clue about her father.

• Names & addresses of witnesses

• That he was a Bachelor and she a Spinster (meaning both were previously unmarried)

• That they were not being married in Windsor for any purpose of evasion or other improper purposes.

• The name of the person solemnizing the marriage – not very readable on this document.

That is a LOT of missing information when compared to the index.

Do those additional items help me to be certain I have the correct couple?  Absolutely! 

There is a noticeable error on both the index and the actual document.  That is the maiden name of William’s mother.  It is listed as Fitzgerald and should be Fitzcharles.  Did William speak with a Scottish accent, since both his parents were born & raised in Scotland?  Was he misunderstood or was he simply misheard?

All together with my research, I can confidently conclude that this is my William’s marriage record.

I’m very glad to have this original document in my database now. 

Have you gone back & located items that were not available to you earlier? I’d love to hear about them.

If you are related to or connected to anyone in this blog post, please get in touch.  Let’s exchange information.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2022   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

 

FRIDAY FINDS ~ Michigan Death Certificates from 1946 - HART, LINDSAY & GROUT

Every 75 years the State of Michigan releases death certificates to public domain. There is a website dedicated to presenting these certificates, it’s called Michiganology.  Many of you may remember the former site we used, it was called Seeking Michigan.

I use my Legacy database to determine which of my ancestors died in a particular year in a certain place.  The list this year was a short one with only five people on it.  One of those 5 was my great grandmother, Mae Thorp Gould.  I had ordered her death certificate years ago.

The others on the list were:

John Murray HART, my half 1^st cousin 3 times removed

Roy Jerome HART, my half 2^nd cousin twice removed

Robert “Bobby” LINDSAY, Jr., my 2^nd cousin once removed

Nellie E. Tibbits GROUT, my 1^st cousin 3 times removed

I was able to go to the Michiganology website and conduct the searches to find all 4 of the death certificates. In one case I had to get creative with my search, but eventually located the correct certificate.

Why is it important to locate the actual vital records for our ancestors?

·       To obtain unknown information

·       To verify information we may already have

·       Because it helps us complete the picture of that persons life

·       Because as genealogists we cannot have enough evidence to prove the “facts” we have listed for our ancestors

Here are the four death certificates I downloaded and saved.

They have been added to my Legacy database and each one was sourced and information gleaned from them.

Click on any image to enlarge it

You can see that these certificates contain a wealth of information.  Do they add to already known facts or events? Does it give me new information to verify? Let the fun begin.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2022   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

FRIDAY FINDS ~ What about Alice Evelyn Bullock, first wife of Robert W. Hall, Sr.?

It has been a while since I’ve tried to locate more information on the first wife of my husband’s paternal Uncle, Robert Walton Hall, Sr.  My husband, Ron, was very fond of his Uncle Bob.  When he was a young man, he worked for his Uncle at a gas station in San Diego.

I’ve written a previous blog post about the marriage of Robert W. Hall to Alice Evelyn Bullock on 15 Jul 1929.  You can read that blog post here WEDDING WEDNESDAY ~ Robert Walton Hall & Alice Evelyn Bullock – 1929

What I had not known until this week, was what became of Alice after she and Uncle Bob divorced?

Prior to the birth of her son, Alice was working for the telephone company (evidenced in the 1930 San Diego census).

In the 1934 San Diego city directory Robert and Evelyn are living at 4402 35th St. He is the manager of a Standard Gas Station.  Their son would have been 2 years old by this time.

(Please click on any image to enlarge it)

 

 

In the 1938 San Diego city directory listing I find Robt. W. Hall listed with Evelyn at 1132 Bush in San Diego.  It seems that Alice went by her middle name in most of the records I’ve located.

I don’t have online access to every year of the San Diego city directories. In addition to the ones online, I do know that some of them can be found at our downtown library here in San Diego.  It’s been some time since I’ve made the hour long trip down there.

The next hint I have about (let’s call her Evelyn from this point on) and her family is a 1940 census where her husband Robert W.,  is living with his parents and younger brother.  Bob is listed as divorced.

Where was Evelyn living in 1940?  I have found one census that seems to fit her.  An Evelyn B. Hall (she could be using her maiden name of Bullock as a middle initial), born in Rhode Island, divorced, working for the W.P.A. and the correct age to be our Evelyn.  She is living with an Orpha Doty (listing Evelyn as a sister).  However, I don't have a sister by the name of Orpha associated with Evelyn.  I need to go back to the Bullock family and see if there is a daughter I may have missed.  Or is this not Evelyn?  But, where is little Robert Jr.?  He would only have been 8 years old by now and I know he lived into adulthood (died on 16 Feb 2019 age 86).

Now that I’ve located both Bob and Evelyn, I need to go looking for young Robert Jr/ in 1940.

I looked with both sets of grandparents and didn’t find this young boy. So where was he living? I also did a image by image of the 41 pages of the 1940 census where I located that Evelyn B. Hall, mentioned above.  I found no Robert W. Hall listed.  No matter what spellings I used.

After 1940 we get into a time when records are not as easy to come by.  We don’t have the 1950 census yet and many vital records are restricted due to people still assumed to be living.

In searching city directories I have located several with Evelyn and her second husband, Harold E. Ray.  They were listed at the same residence in 1945, in San Diego.  Can we assume they were married?  Probably back then, yes. I don't have a marriage record for this couple yet either. 

Here are Evelyn and her husband Harold Ray in the 1967 San Diego city directory.

And here they are in the 1971 San Diego city directory, the year before her death.  Her obituary in Feb 1972 gives her address as 5521 Taft.

Here is the obituary for Evelyn (Mrs. Harold E. Ray).  She and Harold (he died in 1983) are buried at El Camino Memorial Park, San Diego, California.  You may visit their memorials here; Harold #213805315 and Evelyn #213805342

From the city directories to my locating her obituary and burial place, that would be all I can learn about Alice Evelyn Bullock Hall Ray.  At least at this time.

If anyone reading this has any additional information I would certainly welcome it. 

OTHER POSTS THAT MAY BE OF  INTEREST

52 Ancestors in 52 Weeks–Week #9–Robert Walton Hall–1907-1987–My husband’s uncle–Part 1

ROBERT HALL HANDCUFFED IN CONSCRIPTION EFFORT DURING ALPINE FIRE – October 1929

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2020   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

FRIDAY FINDS ~ Quaker Church Records - 1701 - My maternal 8th great grandmother, Elizabeth Potter & her daughter Sarah Frampton

Early Quaker meeting house in New Jersey

Today I was reviewing my Frampton family.  What records do I have?  What records do I need?  What records can I locate?

I came to my 8th great grandparents, William Kent Frampton and Elizabeth Potter.  They married 27 Jul 1680 in Newport, Rhode Island.  Shortly thereafter they moved to Phildelphia, Pennsylvania.  William was acquainted with the well known Pennsylvania Quaker settler, William Penn.   You can read about their connection here William Penn conveys land to William Frampton 1684

Sadly, my 8th great grandfather, William Frampton died 3 Jul 1686 at the age of 43.  This left his widow Elizabeth with 3 young children; Elizabeth, age 5, Thomas, age 3 and Sarah, age 2.

 

As with most women in those days, who were left widowed with young children, Elizabeth remarried.  She married Richard Basnett on 30 Sep 1688.  They had a son, William Feb 1689.  At the time of young William’s birth the couple was living in New Jersey.  I wonder if they had named their son after Elizabeth’s deceased husband, William Frampton.

I don’t know a lot about Richard Basnett, his birth, his occupation etc.  What I do know is that he died just six short years after his marriage to Elizabeth.  He died 8 Oct 1694 in Colonial New Jersey.  He did leave a will naming Elizabeth as an heir.

Now Elizabeth is widowed again and has not 3 children to raise, but her 5 year old son from her marriage to Richard Basnett, as well.  Richard had a daughter by his first wife and some records say that Elizabeth was also raising her.  That makes 6 children under 10 left in her care.

While Elizabeth didn’t remarry right away, she did eventually marry a third time.  This time to Thomas Gardener on 6 Oct 1701 in Burlington, Colonial New Jersey.

I have located the Quaker church records regarding their desire to marry and the church granting that request.  While I was looking at the record I also noticed, on the same page, the request to marry by Elizabeth’s daughter Sarah (daughter of her first husband William).

TIP:  We’ve all been told this over and over, but it bears repeating.  Always look at all the entries on any record where multiple events are listed. 

 (Please click on the image to enlarge it)

 Both couples did marry.  I am still looking for information on Thomas Gardener/Gardiner.  I don’t know anything about him.

Please contact me if you are related/descended from him and have any information.

 

Elizabeth Potter Frampton Basnett Gardener died about 1711.  Did she outlive her third husband?  I don’t know….yet.

 

When we are researching our ancestors this far back we generally have to rely on church records, probate records, books or other historical writings.  This doesn’t always make it easy to find information.

I don’t know about you, but I try to picture what their lives were like back in those colonial days.  So much hardship and danger.  I watch any historical shows or documentaries I can find on TV to learn more.  I also enjoy reading books about that time in history. 

Here's a website I located about Quaker research in New Jersey - 1677-1750

 

If you are a Frampton descendant, I’d love to hear from you.  Let’s exchange information.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2020   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION