The story of my maternal great grandaunt – Charlotte Milne born in Scotland 1854

 

I don’t know about you, but sending for and receiving vital records by mail is still one of my special joys. 

With so many records available online, we don’t have to send for records as often as we did 10 or 20 years ago, but, it’s still sometimes necessary.

While I was at Rootstech this year, working away at the Family History Library, I decided to order a record from the General Register Office of the United Kingdom.  It’s a record I’d been wanting to order for several years.  The death certificate for my maternal great grandaunt, Charlotte Milne. 

I know that Charlotte was born 10 Jan 1854 in Aboyne, Aberdeen, Scotland to Charles Milne and Margaret Ritchie.

This is her baptismal record that I located on microfilm at the FHL a few years ago. Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

(Click on any image to enlarge it)

Baptismal records from microfilm #991253 located in 2011 at the FHL. 

A close up of the entry for Charlotte Milne - born 10 Jan 1854, daughter of Charles Milne, Labourer at Mill of Dess and Margaret Ritchie, his spouse. Father's information matches what I see on the death certificate.

Charlotte was the 3^rd child born to Charles & Margaret.  She had two older sisters, Margaret Ewen Milne and Mary Elizabeth Milne.  Two years after Charlotte was born her parents had a baby boy, Andrew Charles Milne, who became my great grandfather.

My Milne line has always been of great interest to me because Milne was my mother’s maiden name.  I knew both of her parents.  Over the years I have tried to learn as much as I can about my Milne’s from Scotland.

I have not been disappointed in my research.  To read the story of Charlotte’s sister’s husband, who had a very sad ending, you can click here FOLLOW UP ~ William Beechey, his wife and 3 children killed in WW I Bombing - 1915

Two records I had located indicated that Charlotte died in Wales in 1935.  She had never, to my knowledge, married.  She often worked as a domestic and sometimes a nurse.  The last I know of her she was living in Detroit, Wayne, Michigan with her nephew Joseph A. Milne and his family, which included my 6 year old mother.  When I asked my mother about Charlotte, she did not remember her.

Charlotte never married, but it seems she hopped back and forth from the United Kingdom to the United States more than once.

I have the following Events in my Legacy program for Charlotte:

• 1861 & 1871 UK census – living with her parents in Aboyne, Aberdeenshire, Scotland

• 3 Nov 1882 -  Immigration to the United states with her mother Margaret

• 1885 and 1895 Detroit city directory listing – boards 236 3^rd with her mother Margaret

• 1911 – Back in the UK living in Wimbledon, Surrey, England working as a servant/housekeeper in the Henry Rayne household.

• 1917- 1922 – Back in the U.S. living in Toledo, Ohio working as a Nurse.  I wasn’t sure this was her until I read her niece’s wedding announcement in the newspaper.  They mentioned family and included Charlotte Milne of Toledo, Ohio.

• 8 Nov 1921 – Listed on the passenger record for the ship Scythia coming to the United States, arriving in New York.  Did she leave Ohio and travel back to the UK and then return?

• 1930 – Enumerated in Detroit, Wayne, Michigan living with her nephew, Joseph Milne and family.

Now, given that Charlotte was 76 by the time of the 1930 census, I would have expected she died either in Michigan or somewhere in the U.S. close to family.  Of course I looked and looked for any records for her after 1930. 

I came up empty until in May 2011 I got a shaky leaf on Ancestry with reference to the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar(Index of Wills & Administrations), 1861-1941

MILNE Charlotte of 40 Wyndham street Cardiff Spinster died 24 December 1935 Probate Llandaff 20 January to Florence Ann Geen (wife of George Henry Frank Geen). Effect £294 18s 4d

 

 

Could this really be “our” Charlotte?  A probate in Wales? 

Further research revealed a Death Index for England & Wales, 1916-2005 listing Charlotte Milne, age 83 died in Cardiff in 1935.  That is consistent with the probate record.

And there my search ended until I could decide whether to order the record referenced in the death index.  Might it reveal enough information to verify that this is the correct Charlotte Milne?

Fast forward 12 years and I finally decided to bite the bullet and order this death record.  Believe me, I had hoped it might show up online and I did check periodically.

After nearly a month, my record came in the mail.  Will it have the information I need to confirm Charlotte’s date and place of death?

And, here it is!  A death certificate for the Charlotte Milne who died in Cardiff, Wales on 24 Dec 1935.

Death certificate for Charlotte Milne

I immediately see the following significant details……….

·       Place of death – Marwolaeth, Cardiff West in the County Borough of Cardiff

·       When and Where died – 24 Dec 1935 at 40 Wyndham St. UD

·       Name and surname – Charlotte Milne

·       Sex – female

·       Age – 83 years

·       Occupation – Spinster, companion help (domestic)

·       Daughter of Charles Milne Farm labourer (deceased)

·       Cause of death – Syncope, cardiac dilation, haemoplegia

·       Signature and residence of informant – F. Geen, present at death 40 Wyndham St., Cardiff 

One of these buildings is the place where Charlotte died.  

40 Wyndham Street, Cardiff (courtesy of Google Earth)

I am now convinced based on this evidence that this is “our” Charlotte Milne.  The death index and probate record refer directly to this same person.

It’s nice to finally know.  I have always wished that death records from the U.K. listed the burial location, but they don’t. 

Since Charlotte never married or had children, it’s up to us, as family members to remember her and honor her life.  I’ve looked through the family photos I have from my Milne side and don’t see any photos that could be her.

That’s the end of Charlotte’s story for now.  I may never learn more, but if I do I would be delighted.

What journey's have you taken in finding a particular ancestor's information?  I'd love to hear about in your comments or on your own blog post.

If you are related to or connected to anyone in this blog post, please get in touch.  Let’s exchange information.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2022   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

 

 

FOLLOW UP ~ William Beechey, his wife and 3 children killed in WW I Bombing - 1915

Pictures of the scene at some of the Zeppelin bombing sites

I featured William James Clifford Beechey in a Wedding Wednesday post on 13 Jan 2021. William had 3 marriages and from them, 11 children.  William’s first wife was my maternal great grandaunt, Margaret Ewen Milne.

I mentioned at the end of the previous post that there was a sad ending to his story.  And, indeed there is.

William, his third wife Elizabeth Emma Frances Stevens and 3 of their children, William, age 11, Margaret, age 6 and Helena, age 3 all died in a Zeppelin bombing in London, England, in 1915, during World War I.

What a tragic story to find. 

William & his family were living in Hughes Field in Deptford, London, England.  According to the news and other articles I’ve read, this area was tenement buildings.  I know that in 1908, William had been admitted to the Poor Law Hospital,  It does sound like this family had a tough go of it financially.

William had married Elizabeth on 15 Apr 1900 in Deptford, London, England.  Seven months later their son, Claude was born, followed by William in 1904, Elizabeth about 1906, Margaret about 1909 and Helena in 1912.

It was actually through contact with Liz, the wife of my 3rd cousin, that I learned of the tragic deaths of William & his family. 

TIP – I had stopped doing research on William when I learned that my maternal great grandaunt, Margaret had died in 1886, after only 7 years of marriage to William.  Although I did follow through on the two daughters they had together. This isn’t the first time that further research on someone linked only by marriage, has proven to reveal stories that should be told. So, if you have the time, it’s not a bad idea to keep researching those lines. 

I located the following articles about this incident.  And, of course, many more about the entire story of the Zeppelin raids/bombings during this time.

 

Picture of a Zeppelin from this time frame

Poster from the UK

Article recounting the Zeppelin raids in London

On January 31, 2021 I went to the FindMyPast website and ordered William’s death record.  This was my first time ordering from the General Registry Office (GRO) in the UK.  I selected to receive the order in PDF format via email.  Not only is it less expensive, the order arrives more quickly. 

On February 3, 2021 I received William’s death record.  I wanted the exact information about his cause of death and his exact death date etc.

Here is his death record

Death registration for William James Beechey

Transcription of the information in the image

No. 143 – eighth September 1915 Miller Hospital – William James Beechey, male – of 34 Hughes Fields, Deptford, General labourer – Cause of death – Shock from burns received caused by an incendiary bomb from a German Zeppelin. 3 hours – Certificate received from H.B. Sewell, Deputy Coroner for London, Inquest held 10th September 1915.

Did William live for 3 hours after the bombing?  Is that what the 3 hours written under cause of death means?  He did die at a hospital, so perhaps he was found alive and transported. 

What I need to do now is order the death records for the rest of the family and see how they compare.  Were other family members found alive?  Did some of them die on scene?  It’s certainly an awful thing to think about. 

I hope by telling William’s family stories 106 years later, honors them and keeps their memory alive.

If you are connected to this family, please get in touch, I’d love to hear from you.  I know there must be quite a few descendants out there.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2010-2021   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

THOUGHTFUL THURSDAY–Why don’t I have a death date or record for William H. Thorpe?

I don’t know about you, but sometimes I sit down in front of my computer, with my two nice monitors and stare at them without a clue as to what I want to do in the way of research.  Am I alone in this?

I decided to take a look at my THORP family.  My great grandmother was Mae Eva Thorp 4 Apr 1862, New York to 3 Nov 1946, Detroit, Wayne Michigan.  She married William Val Gould 1859-1924.  I have never been able to locate their marriage record.
Now, this particular Thorp family seems to spell the name without an “e” at the end, most of the time.
 
This presented quite a problem when researching my great grandmother’s sister, Catherine “Kittie” Thorp.  WHY?
Because she married William H. THORPE.  Yup, she went from being a Thorp to a Thorpe.

Let’s take a look at William H. Thorpe today.  Here is what shows up in my Legacy database for him.

 
Not very darn much information, right? 

• I have him as head of household in a 1900 census, living in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio.  The family is a perfect match to this couple and their children.
• In the 1910 census, Kittie Thorp is widowed and living with her daughter and son-in-law and family, back in Detroit, Michigan.

Did William H. Thorpe die between 1900 and 1910?  Or, is Kittie divorced, but listed as widowed? I can’t tell you how often I’ve seen that over the years.

First thing I’m going to do is go to my Ancestry tree and see if any new record hints have popped up on William.

• Nothing new in hints.  The two census records shown appear to be another couple.  I do look at the trees to check for clues or leads, but don’t use them as sources.
• Next, I clicked on the “search records” tab from William’s profile page in Ancestry.  AH HA!!!
• What is this city directory I see for 1916 in Detroit, Michigan?
• It’s a listing for Kittie Thorpe (wid Wm), boards 154 Alger Ave.

This is great because now I have one more piece of evidence that Kittie was widowed.
 
If Kittie is boarding at 154 Alger Ave., who is she living with?
I went to the street directory portion of the city directory and located Alger Ave.  I found 154 and noted that J.D. Stanton is listed as the resident.  I immediately recognized the name Stanton as being one I had researched.  Sure enough I checked my Legacy database and there he was, John Davies Stanton married Kittie’s daughter, Grace on 24 Jul 1907.  So Kittie was living with them in 1916.  Yeah!! I have the right Kittie Thorpe.



When did William & Kittie Thorpe move back to Michigan?  Did she moved back after his death?  Or before.  I’m now going to check for Detroit City Directories for the years 1900-1910.  

Although the family was in enumerated in Ohio for the 1900 census, they could still show up in a 1900 Detroit city directory.

1900 – 1904 - Not in Detroit
1905 – Located Wm. H. Thorpe at 422 4th.  Also living at that address is Mabel Thorpe, which is his daughter, who didn’t marry until 1908.  This gives me reason to believe this is our William.
1906 – Wm. H. & daughter Mabel living at 393 15th.  He is working as a steward.
1907 – This Detroit Directory is not complete and does not have the “T’s”.
1908 – Neither Wm. H. or Catherine, his wife are listed in this directory.
1909 – Catherine (wid Wm) bds 401 15th.

I have concluded from this evidence that William probably died between 1907 and 1909.
 
Next step SeekingMichigan.org.  I looked and looked and searched for a long time on this site.  The 1897-1920 deaths are there, as are the images.  But, no manner of searching turned up William H./Wm. H. Thorpe.  I tried just the year, just the first name, just the last name and many other combinations.

HAVE I ACCOMPLISHED MY GOAL TODAY?
NO, I haven’t.  I still don’t have a death date or burial location for William H. Thorpe.  I’ve certainly narrowed it down.
 
OH MY GOSH!!!!!
I was just about to post this and thought, well, I'll just look one more place before I share this with my readers.  I had checked FindAGrave many many times in the past.  BUT, don't we all know that we have to keep checking?  YES!!!!!

I FOUND A MEMORIAL FOR WILLIAM H. THORPE WHO DIED IN 1909 (Just at I had narrowed it down to).
When was this memorial posted?  Just 18 days ago!

Do I seem excited?  Well, I'm doing the genealogy happy dance right now.
 
Here is a link to William's memorial #149488550 The memorial includes his obituary from the Detroit Free Press. 

He is buried at my favorite Detroit cemetery, Elmwood. 

So, now have I accomplished my goal today?  YES!!!!  How long did this take me.  The better part of the afternoon.  Worth it?  You bet.

OTHER POSTS THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST
MICHIGAN DEATH RECORDS ONLINE - Where Can You Find Them?

PLEASE contact me if you think you might be related, even remotely, to anyone mentioned in this blog.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2015   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

CHECK THOSE RECORDS CAREFULLY - Look what I found!

Make sure you check every entry on the pages of records you find.

HERE'S WHY.......
 
I was reviewing the PRATT section of our family today.  I noticed that I didn’t have a death record image for a death that occurred in 1888 in Michigan.  I had the index information, but not the image.

I know the images are available on Family Search in the Michigan Deaths, 1867-1897 database.  I located the record right away.

Here is page 1 showing Mary Sumner nee Pratt who died 21 Apr 1888.  Notice she uses “P” as her middle initial.  It was and still is common for women to use their maiden name or the first initial of that name for a middle initial, once they marry.



From previous experience I know that there is usually a PAGE 2 for these records on Family Search.  So, I went to the second page and there it was.  Showing her cause of death and her parents, Josiah Pratt & Rachel aka Rebecca, whom I already knew of. No surprise there.



BUT WAIT!  What is the record just below hers?  It shows the exact same information for:

• Cause of death – consumption
• Birthplace – Canada
• Occupation – Housewife
• Parent’s names – Josiah & Rachel Pratt
• Residence – Dead
• Date of record – June 7th 1889

NOTE THE CIRCLED ITEMS below Mary's information.



Is this some sort of clerical error? A duplication? Or what?

I went back to the first page to see what name was listed under my Mary Sumner.

The next name on the list is Sarah P. HUNT who died 28 Feb 1888 a married woman, age 57 yrs. 11 mos. 4 days, who died in Armada.

Here is that first page.



What did I do next?

I looked in my database at the children born to Josiah Pratt & Rebecca “Rachel” Jackson.  Did they have a daughter named Sarah who married a man named Hunt?  I have 3 children born to Josiah & Rebecca.  A son, John and two daughters, Mary born 1822 and there she is Sarah born about 1832 in Canada.
Who did Sarah marry?
- - -  She married Ashley HART

Here is what my Legacy database shows for Sarah Pratt. 



In this case I do think a clerical error was made when they recorded her last name on that death record.  Since every other item fits, I am concluding that I have found her death record.  And, no wonder I wasn’t able to find it before.  I would have been looking for HART not HUNT.

Isn’t this awesome?  I was looking for one record and found two.
 
Our lesson for today – PAY ATTENTION TO EVERY OTHER PERSON ON ANY REGISTER WITH MULTIPLE NAMES.
  
I get pretty excited when things like this happen.
 
What surprises have you found in records?  Let me know in a comment or with a link to your own blog post.

OTHER POSTS THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST
SURPRISE! A birth record where is wasn't supposed to be
FAMILY SEARCH - Going back & getting those "other" pages

PLEASE contact me if you think you might be related, even remotely, to anyone mentioned in this blog.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2015   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION