WORDLESS WEDNESDAY - PHOTOS OF THORP FAMILY

These are the photos I have for my Thorp family.  I wrote about the Thorp's earlier this week. Here are more photos from the family file.

Agnes Thorp, daughter of Horace & Catherine, wife of Francis Murphy

Annie Thorp, daughter of Horace & Catherine - born 1870 - no further info

Horace Henry Thorp, Jr, son of Horace & Catherine- 1868-1900

Catherine Dorsey Thorp with her two children Annie & Horace Jr. circa 1871

Catherine "Kittie" Thorp on left, unknown in middle and Agnes Thorp on right - both Kittie & Agnes are daughters of Horace & Catherine Thorp

If you recognize any of these people or their names, or are related to them, please contact me.  I'd love to hear from you.

All photos are courtesy of Bonnie Schultz who is married to my 3rd cousin, Jim.  Thanks Bonnie!

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

 

Copyright ©  2014   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

A STATE CENSUS RECORD THAT LEADS TO A LOT MORE QUESTIONS–The Monson Thorp family

     

Pictured above from left to right - Lucyette Thorp, Reverend Wallace Walter Thorp & Horace Henry Thorp

I was recently doing a bit of research on my 3rd great grandfather, Monson THORP and his family.

Born 27 Feb 1801 probably in Connecticut, died 17 May 1888 in Skaneateles, Onondaga, New York.
He married Lany/Laura COOPER unknown date.  Lany was born 16 Feb 1815 in Cato, Cayuga, New York and died 16 Jul 1886 in Skaneateles, Onondaga, New York.

I have done quite a bit of research on this direct line.  However, I have not located Monson’s parents, nor confirmed Lany’s parents, nor have I located their marriage record.

This THORP line is one of my favorites because my great grandmother was Mae Eve THORP who married William Val GOULD.  They were my Dad’s grandparents, whom he called Meema & Beepa and he spoke of them often.  He was their only grandchild and I suspect he was doted on, as there are many pictures of him with his grandparents.

Here is a picture of my Dad as a child, circa 1914, with his grandparents on the left and his parents on the right.  They are William & Mae Thorp Gould and his parents are Harry & Marie Lindsay Gould.

(CLICK ON ANY IMAGE TO ENLARGE IT)



While I was conducting my recent research on Monson & Lany I came across a couple of New York state census records that I hadn’t seen before.

TIP:  These state census records DID NOT show up in the “hints” section on my Ancestry tree.  I have recently begun to click on the “search records” area on my tree when I am viewing an individual.  This leads to many more discoveries than you will find in your hints.
 


Monson Thorp and Lany Cooper had 8 known children:
 
Ann M., 1831-about 1903, married William ARMITAGE
Rev. Wallace Walter, 1833-1913 married Julia Maria AUSTIN (photo of Wallace at top of page)
Horace Henry (my direct line) 1836-1907 married Catherine DORSEY (photo of Horace at top of page)
Lucyette born 1838 died of Typhoid fever in 1866, age 27 (Photo at top of page)
Stephen B. born 1840 survived the Civil War and died of consumption in 1871, married Henrietta BARNES
May “Polly” 1841-1892 married David Preston FLOWER
Edith Eliza 1843-1915 married George Beech SURDAM
Monson Jr. 1847-1939 married Eudora Louise SEARLS

This would have made Lany about 15 or 16 years old at the birth of her first child, Ann M. Thorp in about 1831.  Having children that early is certainly not unusual back then.  HOWEVER……………………………..
When I located the 1865 New York state census for Monson and Lany it states that they had both been married 2 times!  WHAT?!  And, Lany is the mother of 6 children.  But, they had 8 children.  Something is amiss here. 
Here is the census record:


Here is a close up of the family. 



Here is a cropped view of the heading of those numbers & tick marks on the census record shown above.  NOTICE column 11 “ Of how many children the parent” and column 12 “Number of times married.”



This sheds brand new light on this family.
Here are my questions:

• Were the first two children, Ann M. and the Rev. Wallace Walter, born to another woman & Monson?
• Is Lany even the mother of 6 of the 8 children?  She could have had other children by another marriage. 
• Who was Monson’s first wife?  Who was Lany’s first husband?
• Where are those marriage records?  New York is such a difficult place to find records.  Are the marriage records even in New York?
• How many of the 8 known children born to Monson do I have death certificates for?  Do those certificates/records show Lany as the mother?

 I immediately went into my database and checked for death records for their children.  I find that the first child I have any death record for is child #5, Stephen B. Thorp.  In fact, I only have death records for three (3) of the 8 children and only two (2) list both Monson & Lany/Lana as their parents.

That being said, what was my evidence that the children I listed above, were in fact, the children of Monson and/or Lany Thorp?

The answer is PROBATE RECORDS.  I sent for and received probate records for both Monson & Lany Thorp back in 2008.  The probate record for Monson, dated 30 Jun 1888 (the date it was presented in court) lists  6 of his 8 children, including married names for three daughters.  The only children not listed on the probate record are Lucyette who died in 1866 and Stephen who died in 1871.

Interestingly as I was reviewing probate records for this couple, I noticed that Lany Thorp’s record also listed children, but not ALL the children that are listed on Monson’s probate. And, she died prior to him by 2 years.  She lists Horace, Mary, Edith and Monson Jr. as her heirs/next of kin.  Since Lucyette & Stephen are deceased, this leads me to further believe that Ann & Rev. William Thorp, listed on Monson’s probate, were his children from another marriage.
  
Is this fun or what?

Here are the first pages of both probate records for your review.

  

This has been an awesome day of discovery.  In wanting to share with you what I found on the state census record I have ended up discovering so much more.  I will be making a trip to the Family History Library next spring.  I hope that I can find some of the records (like the marriages for Monson & Lany) that will help uncover some mysteries about this family.
 
If you think you might be related to this family, please contact me.  I’d love to hear from you.

OTHER POSTS THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST

SUNDAY'S OBITUARY - WILLIAM V. GOULD - HUSBAND OF MAE THORP

EVALUATING YOUR RECORDS ON A INDIVIDUAL PERSON - WHAT YOU WILL LEARN - GLADYS LILLIAN GOULD

Happy Hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2014   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

TUESDAY’S TIP–Genealogy Trails History Group–Dedicated To FREE Genealogy

It’s a funny thing about his hobby we have.  There is no end to it and there is always something new to discover.  Take this website that I discovered yesterday.

It’s called Genealogy Trails History Group.   Here is the statement from their home page:

“Our goal is to help you track your ancestors through time by transcribing genealogical and historical data for the free use of all researchers.

We started out way back in March 2000 by providing data for the state of Illinois and expanded to cover the other states in March of 2006. Since then, we've been very pleased to welcome the many new hosts who have joined our original Illinois volunteers, and to continue to bring free transcribed data to our websites.”

Many of you may know about this website, but it was new to me.  Or, maybe I’d heard about it years ago and just forgot.  

This is a website that is dedicated to FREE genealogy.  Free is good, right?  We like free. The website is run by volunteers and the information is contributed by people like you and me and added to the site. 

There is a link for all 50 states.  The information available varies greatly from state to state.

As you select the state you are taken to that page.  Within that state’s page are links to various counties, a history of the state and other important information.  What you find under the counties are links to things like:

• Biographies
• Birth Records
• Cemeteries
• Church Histories
• Death Records
• Family Bibles
• Marriage Records
• Obituaries and death notices
• Surname lists

Here are a couple of screenshots from the Michigan page.




Here is the home page for the Ohio page.



You get the idea.

I have already contacted the volunteer in Michigan to ask her how I can submit records from my family.

The more of us that contribute to this site the better.
 
Please let me know if you find any gems on this site.  Now….where was I?  Oh yeah, clicking on the state links, one by one.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2014   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

LEGACY NEWS–2015 WEBINAR SERIES ANNOUNCED

If you are new to Legacy or have been using it for years you can benefit from their webinars.
Some of the new features:

• Evening webinars
• Beginners series
• Researching with Karen – submit your research problem and let Karen give you recommendations

To learn more about what’s coming in 2015 please use this link:
2015 WEBINAR SCHEDULE AND INFO

Here is a link to Legacy featured products:
http://www.legacyfamilytreestore.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1

I receive no remuneration from Legacy for this post.  I’m just a Legacy user who likes the software and finds it valuable in my research.

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2014   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

PEARL HARBOR DAY–DECEMBER 7TH–WE REMEMBER

 

WE REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR

"A DAY THAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY"

Let us remember on this day, all those who died, were injured and went on to fight in a brutal and long war for our freedoms

   

IN REMEMBRANCE
CARL EDWARD WEBB, PFC, USMC, died on the Arizona, age 22

 

 

IN THANKS FOR THEIR SERVICE DURING WORLD WAR II

Robert Andrew Milne, my Uncle

Joseph Edward Cornelius, my step father

Gordon Charles Hall, my father-in-law

Dorothy Fink Hall, my mother-in-law

Marion Nelson "Bud" Long, my husband’s Uncle

                                      

GOD BLESS ALL OUR VETERANS, SOLDIERS & THEIR FAMILIES - WE ARE GRATEFUL BEYOND WORDS
 
 

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2014   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

TUESDAY’S TIP–A DATABASE OR A WEBSITE? WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?

                                               
 

My reason for writing this post is to help those who may get confused with all the internet language that we toss around so freely.

In recent weeks I have seen an increase of comments on various Facebook groups regarding websites and databases.  People are posting their questions and then the helpful members of the group comment with their answers. 

However, I am reading a lot of questions and comments where the use of the word website is being used in place of database and vice versa.

Why does this matter?

It matters because in order to properly understand what we are doing, as genealogists, we need to understand the different options available to us and how they work.  If you use your computer to do any of your genealogy research, then you need to know some basic computer language.  It will help you to better utilize your resources.

WHAT IS A WEBSITE?
I did a Google search for the word Website and found many links with definitions.  They all basically say the same thing.  Here are a couple of definitions:

From Merriam-Webster dictionary http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/database
”A collection of pieces of information that is organized and used on a computer.”

From Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/website
“A connected group of pages on the World Wide Web regarded as a single entity, usually maintained by one person or organization and devoted to a single topic or several closely related topics.”

EXAMPLES OF WEBSITES

• Ancestry.com
• Familysearch.org
• Genealogybank.com
• Amazon.com

Those various websites contain information either placed on the site or linked to the site by individuals or organizations.
 
When you place your family tree on Ancestry.com you are contributing to their website.
When you access newspapers on Genealogybank.com you are accessing the records that have been placed on the site.

There can be databases created within websites. Which is exactly what your ancestor tree is on these various websites.  A database within the website.

How does that differ from a database?

WHAT IS A DATABASE?
I conducted another Google search for the definition of the word database.  Again, most of the definitions were the same.

From Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/database
"A comprehensive collection of related data organized for convenient access, generally in a computer."

From Merriam-Webster.com  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/database
”Collection of data or information organized for rapid search and retrieval, especially by a computer. Databases are structured to facilitate storage, retrieval, modification, and deletion of data in conjunction with various data-processing operations. A database consists of a file or set of files that can be broken down into records, each of which consists of one or more fields. Fields are the basic units of data storage. Users retrieve database information primarily through queries. Using keywords and sorting commands, users can rapidly search, rearrange, group, and select the field in many records to retrieve or create reports on particular aggregates of data according to the rules of the database management system being used.”

Doesn’t that last definition sound exactly like our genealogy programs such as Legacy, RootsMagic, Family Tree Maker, Reunion and others?

Yes, it does.  Because those programs are databases.  We add information to the database, we retrieve information from it, we create reports, we search in it for information that we have added. 

But………wait!  Aren’t our genealogy programs linked to the internet too?  Does that mean they are websites? NO!

The genealogy programs we use are databases that have been programmed to link to websites on the internet. 

With the click of a mouse from these programs we can access websites such as Ancestry or Family Search.  One program, Family Tree Maker, even syncs your DATABASE to the Ancestry WEBSITE.

I hope this information was helpful.  I often interact with genealogists who are not comfortable with computers.  I try to help them by explaining things in a way that helps them understand and allows them to use their databases and the available websites to their full capacity. 

OTHER POSTS THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST

DIGITAL FOLDER ORGANIZING AND NAMING, MADE EASY

ADDING A RECORD TO LEGACY FROM ANCESTRY - STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS

LEGACY 8 - THE SEARCH FUNCTION - WHAT CAN YOU FIND?

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2014   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION

AMANUENSIS MONDAY - BIRTH & DEATH DATES FROM MY GRANDMOTHER'S JOURNAL - SEPTEMBER

What does Amanuensis mean anyway?

To put it simply, it means a “person employed to write what another dictates or copy what has been written by another.”

As many of you know from reading previous posts on my blog, my maternal grandmother left a spiral notebook, which I call her journal.  In it she left recipes, a list of 183 family members and their birth dates and some death dates, a list of anniversaries and other various lists or things that were important to her.  It’s a treasure that I cherish. 

Today I’m going to be transcribing her list of names & dates from September.

For the previous posts transcribing January through August, please click on these links.

Amanuensis Monday - Transcribing my grandmother's journal - January

Amanuensis Monday - Transcribing my grandmother's journal – February

Amanuensis Monday - Transcribing my grandmother's journal – March

Amanuensis Monday - Transcribing my grandmother's journal – April

Amanuensis Monday - Transcribing my grandmother's journal – May

Amanuensis Monday - Transcribing my grandmother's journal – June

Amaneunsis Monday - Transcribing my grandmother's journal – July

Amanuensis Monday - Transcribing my grandmother's journal – August

Here is the page from her journal.  This journal was begun when my grandmother, Florence L. Bowden, married my grandfather, Joseph A. Milne, in 1906.  She was just 18 years old at the time.  This journal is very old and falling apart.  I have digitized all the pages and have the original stored in a safe, archival box.

(CLICK ON ANY IMAGE TO ENLARGE IT)

Here is my transcription of this page, with some annotations.  I have indicated the family connection in brackets, even thought it’s not part of the document.  I thought you’d like to know who these people are to me.  And, for any cousins out there reading this, maybe you’ll find it helpful.

I don't know what the numerical figures in the upper left hand corner mean.  Obviously some math done by my grandmother.

I’ve added whatever photos I have of the family members named in this list. (See below)

ADDITIONAL NOTE:  I REDACT THE BIRTH DATES & FULL NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO I’M AWARE OF, THAT ARE STILL LIVING, FOR THEIR PROTECTION. 

September

Catherine Forsythe  Sept 2  ‘93  [1st cousin twice removed]

*  Nellie Smith Anderson     Sept 2  ‘94  died 

*  Edward Ardner   Sept 3  ‘13

*  Gretchen Sue Hibberlin     Sept 2  ‘38

*  Bob Searls   Sept  12  ‘33

*  Mary Margaret Donaldson  Sept 12  ‘39

Norman Harry ______   Sept 2 [my brother]

Florence N. Verney  Sept 18  ‘85  Dec 21  ‘68  [1st cousin twice removed]

Anne Gillespie Forsyth Fields  Sept 19  ‘19 [2nd cousin once removed]

Eleanor Louise Diebel  Sept 22  ‘15   [2nd cousin once removed]

*  Frances Noggle  Sept 20  1919  June 12  ‘59 

Dorothy Trestain Milne  Sept 12 1913  June 5  ‘65  [wife of uncle]

Harold Coker  Sept 2  1889

Shields    died Sept 26  ‘24   Sept 26  ‘23  [probably George 2nd cousin once remove]

67  Stella Hunter E. L. F. Pfeiffer  Sept 30  1867  died May 6  1947  [great grandaunt]

That’s a total of 15 names, (including the name that is lined out).  I am very fortunate to have this kind of list from my grandmother.
I have placed an asterisk * next to the names I have not yet connected to our family. 

SIX of the names are still waiting for me to find their connections.  I have them in my Legacy database as unlinked individuals. 

In the lists from the other 11 months of the year, there are also names that aren’t yet connected.  I keep looking from time to time and link them as I identify them.



This month I have photographs of two of the people listed. 

  
          Harry Norman                                                       Stella Hunter E. L. F. Pfeiffer

Here is a post I wrote about the Hunter sisters and them being featured on Maureen Taylor’s article for Family Tree.

SIBLING SATURDAY - THE HUNTER SISTERS

Please contact me if you recognize any of the names with asterisks or if you are related to any of these family members.  I’d love to hear from you.

Happy hunting,

Michigan Girl

Copyright ©  2014   Diane Gould Hall

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO USE WITHOUT PERMISSION